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26FtW26
06-07-2015, 12:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UamMIKpW_NY
Warning: Bad language

Apparently the standard US police force needs like 8 cops (like 4 of them on horses) to arrest one underage drinker?
Their reasoning is to "defend themselves" or "hold off the crowd", while nobody was actually worried about the guy who the police had already tackled.

And, did you see that one guy who was filming? The female (nothing against females, just so it's easier to find the exact moment) police officer took his phone and threw it on the concrete floor. After that, the guy got a HUGE amount of pepper spray sprayed on him by the other cop.

Jesus, it's like to be a cop in the US you only need to graduate from McDonald's college of minimal requirements to become police. No moral or educational standards at all. :nope:

Conan
06-07-2015, 12:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UamMIKpW_NY
Warning: Bad language

Apparently the standard US police force needs like 8 cops (like 4 of them on horses) to arrest one underage drinker?
Their reasoning is to "defend themselves" or "hold off the crowd", while nobody was actually worried about the guy who the police had already tackled.

And, did you see that one guy who was filming? The female (nothing against females, just so it's easier to find the exact moment) police officer took his phone and threw it on the concrete floor. After that, the guy got a HUGE amount of pepper spray sprayed on him by the other cop.

Jesus, it's like to be a cop in the US you only need to graduate from McDonald's college of minimal requirements to become police. No moral or educational standards at all. :nope:

One of the reasons i hate police and governments.

26FtW26
06-07-2015, 12:53 PM
One of the reasons i hate police and governments.

Talking about government, nothing will probably happen to the police because apparently all police can be believed and trusted more than like 40 civilians.

- - - Updated - - -


That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on the forums. You hate governments? LOL.

Why the hell not? If a government is :poop:, you're probably not going to praise it like it's a reborn version of Jesus. :nope:

Conan
06-07-2015, 01:04 PM
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on the forums. You hate governments? LOL.

Until you know the reason why i hate them, you would still call me stupid.

Maybe i can write 10 paragraphs why i hate them? Oh wait, I'm lazy. kek

Conan
06-07-2015, 01:21 PM
Would you rather have complete chaos, mass murders, everyone stealing and vandalizing stuff or the current situation.

You don't really know how i hate my country's government.

Someone set up a scheme where they got 1 BILLION pesos from the taxes of the people in my country. Oh and some people even call our government a crocodile farm.

Hans
06-07-2015, 01:23 PM
Would you rather have complete chaos, mass murders, everyone stealing and vandalizing stuff or the current situation.

It's already like that. (In da PH :D)

- - - Updated - - -

I hate government btw. (I have my reasons)

Conan
06-07-2015, 01:26 PM
Would you rather have the purge 24/7 and a complete collapse in trade (so no food is avaibable in the super markets you need to grow your own food) or what you have now?

So Hospitals will be shut down? Humans can manage things without a "Central" authority if they want to.

This "Central" authority called the government just loots taxes from the citizens and live off money they didnt make. Growt your own food? isnt that the ways people use before?
We can grow things on our own if we want to.

CandleJack
06-07-2015, 01:29 PM
Would you rather have complete chaos, mass murders, everyone stealing and vandalizing stuff or the current situation.

Our Government causes almost everything that you listed.
They use the Media to sugarcoat and brag about things that they're supposed to do.
Citizens here are often blinded from what they deserve to see.

26FtW26
06-07-2015, 01:45 PM
America, the land of freedom!


conditions may apply

Tempting
06-07-2015, 02:00 PM
America, the land of freedom!


conditions may apply

This is so true.. so is the video. They do at least keep the civilians safe under any circumstance.

TurrtleSea3
06-07-2015, 02:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UamMIKpW_NY
Warning: Bad language

Apparently the standard US police force needs like 8 cops (like 4 of them on horses) to arrest one underage drinker?
Their reasoning is to "defend themselves" or "hold off the crowd", while nobody was actually worried about the guy who the police had already tackled.

And, did you see that one guy who was filming? The female (nothing against females, just so it's easier to find the exact moment) police officer took his phone and threw it on the concrete floor. After that, the guy got a HUGE amount of pepper spray sprayed on him by the other cop.

Jesus, it's like to be a cop in the US you only need to graduate from McDonald's college of minimal requirements to become police. No moral or educational standards at all. :nope:

Haha...wait

I know that place

MOM GET THE CAMERA

ITS HORSIES

- - - Updated - - -


Haha...wait

I know that place

MOM GET THE CAMERA

ITS HORSIES

Also,

the APD once sprayed us on the last day of school :D

With hoses

intentionally
not too servere


it was fun

Hans
06-07-2015, 02:42 PM
Hey, we don't always need something to rely on, y'know? We can make up our own rules, if you do something bad, it's your problem. Not ours. Pay the consequence (even though it's the purge 24/7).

The government, the CAUSE of all this destruction, are group of people who protect us from the truth under some pathetic conditions. If humans didn't make their own artificial center of gravity, we wouldn't have gone through this. The world shouldn't be this fallen. It's better to keep some things hidden to other people, and known to those have been chosen. In other words, you don't always "expose" your true intentions to anyone. We always have reason, pathetic or smart. Presidents, politics, mayors, nobles. What to they intend? Honor, fame and glory?

Managing isn't for humans alone. We or they, can't make a better community. That is why we don't need to rely on humans who think they're that superior.

We all have our own will, we chose it by time. Life was given to us, all of it. But not our will, intentions, wants and determination. The authority are trapped in their own pride, and honor. They can't show their true intentions, which is pathetic. But if we were all to show our true intentions, it would end up ending the world. That's why we need a catalyst. If we can't work together as equal, don't expect we would accomplish anything. Actually, the government is just a stupid wall. If we break that wall, we're free and dive in to world destruction. That's why we need to be equal first. No more pride, greed, arrogance and lies. But this, we don't want equality. A life and world without change isn't life.

It was better off without government. But now, the chaos they've created. If they go now, the world would end to chaos.


It's weird, isn't it? The government started chaos, and now that it crossed the line of no return, we need them to maintain it as balanced.

This is why I hate those jacked-up government.

Conan
06-07-2015, 03:14 PM
Apperently youve never heard of globalisation? You are aware that almost all the food in the supermarket has been imported and no goverment would want to trade with a state in anarchy.

Who said that you should buy everything form the supermarket? You can grow them in your own garden and not worry about pesticides right?

People are already selling things before even if there was no government.

Bob Will
06-07-2015, 03:15 PM
Hey could you show me the police report and other stuff like that?
I am curious on what they posted, because we still do not have the entire story.

Conan
06-07-2015, 03:23 PM
You will have a limited variety of food:

Conditions need to be good
Some products need to be refined
You need to breed animals if you want meat (cows pigs etc need a lot of food each year)

so say good bye to chocolate, candy, fancy drinks, a lot of fruit, meat and vegetables

Oh and youll probably not have any electricity since no one gets paid anyways
No running water out of the fossit you need to find fresh water
No more luxury

Humans lived that way before right? Its like your saying we cant live without luxury.

I live in an area where there are deep wells water isnt a problem.

~Rapidfire~
06-07-2015, 03:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UamMIKpW_NY
Warning: Bad language

Apparently the standard US police force needs like 8 cops (like 4 of them on horses) to arrest one underage drinker?
Their reasoning is to "defend themselves" or "hold off the crowd", while nobody was actually worried about the guy who the police had already tackled.

And, did you see that one guy who was filming? The female (nothing against females, just so it's easier to find the exact moment) police officer took his phone and threw it on the concrete floor. After that, the guy got a HUGE amount of pepper spray sprayed on him by the other cop.

Jesus, it's like to be a cop in the US you only need to graduate from McDonald's college of minimal requirements to become police. No moral or educational standards at all. :nope:

lol I live in Austin

Conan
06-07-2015, 03:30 PM
Im not saying you arent going to survive but I'd rather stay in a place where there is luxury and a place to study and preform your proffesion instead in your ideal land everyone would be a farmer or something like wise. But in the end a ruler will come and try to rule your "ideal" land. Its always been that way.

I wouldnt care if the "Rulers" of the government are doing it right. What i dont like is they are making the country a money farm.

(Im talking about my country though, i dont know what about yours.)

26FtW26
06-07-2015, 03:33 PM
Hey could you show me the police report and other stuff like that?
I am curious on what they posted, because we still do not have the entire story.

Where in the literal hell do you think I'll find that?
I mean, multiple people posted videos/vlogs/stuff of this. Just google it, I guess.

26FtW26
06-07-2015, 04:00 PM
lol I live in Austin

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/632/652/6ca.jpg

craft3d
06-07-2015, 04:04 PM
America, the land of freedom!


conditions may apply

I had to laugh, now I feel guilty.

Wait, no I don't

Bob Will
06-08-2015, 12:14 AM
Where in the literal hell do you think I'll find that?
I mean, multiple people posted videos/vlogs/stuff of this. Just google it, I guess.

Usually police reports are released after the incidents are over.
This is usually how the news and media manipulates stuff making it look like all the cops in the U.S.A are *******s, when really it is barley a precent. The worst part about the video is people kept crounding when they were trying to arrest the guy. The horses were to try and create a circle so they had a way to bring the criminal, and as long as we don't have information, we just don't know what happened. Not to mention the cop who pepper sprayed the guy had a somewhat reason that looked like a misunderstanding. When one of the horse men took the phone it looked like the guy was attacking, or trying to disrupt the arrest.
Not to mention the cop did say back up 2-3 times.


When are you allowed to film the police :
The law in 38 states plainly allows citizens to record police, as long as you don’t physically interfere with their work.

In most states it’s almost always illegal to record a conversation in which you’re not a party and don’t have consent to record. Massachusetts is the only state to uphold a conviction for recording on-duty police, but that conviction was for a secret recording where the defendant failed to inform police he was recording. (As in the Glik case, Massachusetts courts have ruled that openly recording police is legal, but secretly recording them isn’t.)

“When filming police you always want to avoid an aggressive posture,” insists Holmes. To do this he keeps his strap-supported camera close to his body at waist level. This way he can hold a conversation while maintaining eye contact with police, quickly glancing at the viewfinder to make sure he’s getting a good shot.

26FtW26
06-08-2015, 12:18 AM
Usually police reports are released after the incidents are over.
This is usually how the news and media manipulates stuff making it look like all the cops in the U.S.A are *******s, when really it is barley a precent. The worst part about the video is people kept crounding when they were trying to arrest the guy. The horses were to try and create a circle so they had a way to bring the criminal, and as long as we don't have information, we just don't know what happened. Not to mention the cop who pepper sprayed the guy had a somewhat reason that looked like a misunderstanding. When one of the horse men took the phone it looked like the guy was attacking, or trying to disrupt the arrest.

Did you even pay attention to the video?
Nobody was worried about the guy getting arrested, they just wanted to see what all the sweg was about. And, the woman who took the phone, she threw it on the ground right after she took it. That clearly shows she had no solid reason to take it in the first place.

Bob Will
06-08-2015, 12:20 AM
Did you even pay attention to the video?
Nobody was worried about the guy getting arrested, they just wanted to see what all the sweg was about. And, the woman who took the phone, she threw it on the ground right after she took it. That clearly shows she had no solid reason to take it in the first place.
When are you allowed to film the police :
The law in 38 states plainly allows citizens to record police, as long as you don’t physically interfere with their work.

In most states it’s almost always illegal to record a conversation in which you’re not a party and don’t have consent to record. Massachusetts is the only state to uphold a conviction for recording on-duty police, but that conviction was for a secret recording where the defendant failed to inform police he was recording. (As in the Glik case, Massachusetts courts have ruled that openly recording police is legal, but secretly recording them isn’t.)

“When filming police you always want to avoid an aggressive posture,” insists Holmes. To do this he keeps his strap-supported camera close to his body at waist level. This way he can hold a conversation while maintaining eye contact with police, quickly glancing at the viewfinder to make sure he’s getting a good shot.

Why did she take the phone?
When it comes to police encounters, you don’t get to choose whom you’re dealing with. You might get Officer Friendly, or you might get Officer Psycho. You’ll likely get officers between these extremes. But when you “watch the watchmen,” you must be ready to think on your feet.

In most circumstances, officers will not immediately bull rush you for filming them. But if they aren’t properly trained, they might feel like their authority is being challenged. And all too often police are simply ignorant of the law. Part of your task will be to convince them that you’re not a threat while also standing your ground.

“What are you doing?”

Police aren’t celebrities, so they’re not always used to being photographed in public. So even if you’re recording at a safe distance, they might approach and ask what you are doing. Avoid saying things like “I’m recording you to make sure you’re doing your job right” or “I don’t trust you.”

Instead, say something like “Officer, I’m not interfering. I’m asserting my First Amendment rights. You’re being documented and recorded offsite.”

Saying this while remaining calm and cool will likely put police on their best behavior. They might follow up by asking, “Who do you work for?” You may, for example, tell them you’re an independent filmmaker or a citizen journalist with a popular website/blog/YouTube show. Whatever you say, don’t lie—but don’t let police trick you into thinking that the First Amendment only applies to mainstream media journalists. It doesn’t.

“Let me see your ID.”

In the United States there’s no law requiring you to carry a government ID. But in 24 states police may require you to identify yourself if they have reasonable suspicion that you’re involved in criminal activity.

But how can you tell if an officer asking for ID has reasonable suspicion? Police need reasonable suspicion to detain you, so one way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you’re free to go. You can do this by saying “Officer, are you detaining me, or am I free to go?”

If the officer says you’re free to go or you’re not being detained, it’s your choice whether to stay or go. But if you’re detained, you might say something like, “I’m not required to show you ID, but my name is [your full name].” It’s up to you if you want to provide your address and date of birth if asked for it, but I’d stop short of giving them your Social Security number.

“Please stop recording me. It’s against the law.”

Rarely is it advisable to educate officers about the law. But in a tense recording situation where the law is clearly on your side, it might help your case to politely present your knowledge of state law.

For example, if an insecure cop tries to tell you that you’re violating his civil liberties, you might respond by saying “Officer, with all due respect, state law only requires permission from one party in a conversation. I don’t need your permission to record so long as I’m not interfering with your work.”

If you live in one of the 12 all party record states, you might say something like “Officer, I’m familiar with the law, but the courts have ruled that it doesn’t apply to recording on-duty police.”

If protective service officers harass you while filming on federal property, you may remind them of a recently issued directive informing them that there’s no prohibition against public photography at federal buildings.

“Stand back.”

If you’re approaching the scene of an investigation or an accident, police will likely order you to move back. Depending on the circumstances, you might become involved in an intense negotiation to determine the “appropriate” distance you need to stand back to avoid “interfering” with their work.

If you feel you’re already standing at a reasonable distance, you may say something like, “Officer, I have a right to be here. I’m filming for documentation purposes and not interfering with your work.” It’s then up to you to decide how far back you’re willing to stand to avoid arrest.
source: http://www.flexyourrights.org/7-rules-for-recording-police/

TL;DR
You have the right to record as long as your are not interfearing with the work, but most people who record are trying to make cop look bad/ and or want to show that cops are *******s when they are not.

26FtW26
06-08-2015, 12:25 AM
When are you allowed to film the police :
The law in 38 states plainly allows citizens to record police, as long as you don’t physically interfere with their work.

In most states it’s almost always illegal to record a conversation in which you’re not a party and don’t have consent to record. Massachusetts is the only state to uphold a conviction for recording on-duty police, but that conviction was for a secret recording where the defendant failed to inform police he was recording. (As in the Glik case, Massachusetts courts have ruled that openly recording police is legal, but secretly recording them isn’t.)

“When filming police you always want to avoid an aggressive posture,” insists Holmes. To do this he keeps his strap-supported camera close to his body at waist level. This way he can hold a conversation while maintaining eye contact with police, quickly glancing at the viewfinder to make sure he’s getting a good shot.

Why did she take the phone?
When it comes to police encounters, you don’t get to choose whom you’re dealing with. You might get Officer Friendly, or you might get Officer Psycho. You’ll likely get officers between these extremes. But when you “watch the watchmen,” you must be ready to think on your feet.

In most circumstances, officers will not immediately bull rush you for filming them. But if they aren’t properly trained, they might feel like their authority is being challenged. And all too often police are simply ignorant of the law. Part of your task will be to convince them that you’re not a threat while also standing your ground.

“What are you doing?”

Police aren’t celebrities, so they’re not always used to being photographed in public. So even if you’re recording at a safe distance, they might approach and ask what you are doing. Avoid saying things like “I’m recording you to make sure you’re doing your job right” or “I don’t trust you.”

Instead, say something like “Officer, I’m not interfering. I’m asserting my First Amendment rights. You’re being documented and recorded offsite.”

Saying this while remaining calm and cool will likely put police on their best behavior. They might follow up by asking, “Who do you work for?” You may, for example, tell them you’re an independent filmmaker or a citizen journalist with a popular website/blog/YouTube show. Whatever you say, don’t lie—but don’t let police trick you into thinking that the First Amendment only applies to mainstream media journalists. It doesn’t.

“Let me see your ID.”

In the United States there’s no law requiring you to carry a government ID. But in 24 states police may require you to identify yourself if they have reasonable suspicion that you’re involved in criminal activity.

But how can you tell if an officer asking for ID has reasonable suspicion? Police need reasonable suspicion to detain you, so one way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you’re free to go. You can do this by saying “Officer, are you detaining me, or am I free to go?”

If the officer says you’re free to go or you’re not being detained, it’s your choice whether to stay or go. But if you’re detained, you might say something like, “I’m not required to show you ID, but my name is [your full name].” It’s up to you if you want to provide your address and date of birth if asked for it, but I’d stop short of giving them your Social Security number.

“Please stop recording me. It’s against the law.”

Rarely is it advisable to educate officers about the law. But in a tense recording situation where the law is clearly on your side, it might help your case to politely present your knowledge of state law.

For example, if an insecure cop tries to tell you that you’re violating his civil liberties, you might respond by saying “Officer, with all due respect, state law only requires permission from one party in a conversation. I don’t need your permission to record so long as I’m not interfering with your work.”

If you live in one of the 12 all party record states, you might say something like “Officer, I’m familiar with the law, but the courts have ruled that it doesn’t apply to recording on-duty police.”

If protective service officers harass you while filming on federal property, you may remind them of a recently issued directive informing them that there’s no prohibition against public photography at federal buildings.

“Stand back.”

If you’re approaching the scene of an investigation or an accident, police will likely order you to move back. Depending on the circumstances, you might become involved in an intense negotiation to determine the “appropriate” distance you need to stand back to avoid “interfering” with their work.

If you feel you’re already standing at a reasonable distance, you may say something like, “Officer, I have a right to be here. I’m filming for documentation purposes and not interfering with your work.” It’s then up to you to decide how far back you’re willing to stand to avoid arrest.
source: http://www.flexyourrights.org/7-rules-for-recording-police/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14
tmi

Bob Will
06-08-2015, 12:26 AM
i

TL;DR
You have the right to record as long as your are not interfearing with the work, but most people who record are trying to make cop look bad/ and or want to show that cops are *******s when they are not.

Usually how people react to these videos of "police brutality"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FBFVY0CUYk

Zfert
06-08-2015, 12:41 AM
http://jp4.r0tt.com/l_67c26c80-af64-11e1-9231-17587a600004.jpg

Applez
06-08-2015, 03:24 AM
Besides all the bull :poop: cops have caused, i'm talking about the riots and crap, I still think cops are jerks. I found a YouTube channel of cops getting mad at people for recording :poop: like traffic lights.



I'll stop now.






Also Obama is :poop:.

- - - Updated - - -


America, the land of freedom!


conditions may apply

I read conditions wrong...

Hint: I read the itions as oms.

~Rapidfire~
06-08-2015, 03:27 AM
So Hospitals will be shut down? Humans can manage things without a "Central" authority if they want to.

This "Central" authority called the government just loots taxes from the citizens and live off money they didnt make. Growt your own food? isnt that the ways people use before?
We can grow things on our own if we want to.

Because weird is good.

Applez
06-08-2015, 03:33 AM
Because weird is good.

Preach! what is wrong with me?

peck
06-08-2015, 09:17 PM
I live maybe 25 minutes away from downtown and never heard of this. It really depends on what cops you get. I recently-ish got pulled over because I sped 65 in a 50 (late night) and didn't even get a ticket.

TrueFutBol
06-08-2015, 09:19 PM
The police like snagged that guys phone.

- - - Updated - - -


I live maybe 25 minutes away from downtown and never heard of this. It really depends on what cops you get. I recently-ish sped 65 in a 50 and didn't even get a ticket.

You really know how to live.

peck
06-08-2015, 09:22 PM
The police like snagged that guys phone.

- - - Updated - - -



You really know how to live.

Edited a little to explain a bit. Generally speeding at night downtown by even 5 mph is a big no-no.

Magicalfishy
06-08-2015, 10:10 PM
Cops should be enforcing justice... not being complete jerks to innocents... this just sickens me. They're acting like they're elites in a world of peasants.

Brys
06-08-2015, 11:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UamMIKpW_NY
Warning: Bad language

Apparently the standard US police force needs like 8 cops (like 4 of them on horses) to arrest one underage drinker?
Their reasoning is to "defend themselves" or "hold off the crowd", while nobody was actually worried about the guy who the police had already tackled.

And, did you see that one guy who was filming? The female (nothing against females, just so it's easier to find the exact moment) police officer took his phone and threw it on the concrete floor. After that, the guy got a HUGE amount of pepper spray sprayed on him by the other cop.

Jesus, it's like to be a cop in the US you only need to graduate from McDonald's college of minimal requirements to become police. No moral or educational standards at all. :nope:

Criticizing the U.S. Police, you obviously don't know what it must be like for police officers.

They are getting a lot of crap for brutality and stuff when they are doing there job. They have the other officers just incase some people or someone was going to try something. He was resisting it isn't like they can just say "Hey, can you pretty please stop resisting", No, it wouldn't work.

Nowadays people are blowing up police events and adding stuff to them, which makes everything worse. For example a man was walking out a CVS in Boston who was wanted had a knife on him and started the trouble, he was shot for not backing down and his brother was saying they were just walking out of CVS and he was shot in the back without warning. A security camera caught it and what his brother said was a lie.

Same with the stuff in Fegurson,

Comment
06-08-2015, 11:47 PM
This is the same exact thing that happened to that black man (not trying to be racist) but a police officer strangling a black man for selling drugs? Like come on Police. WAKE UP! This is a serious matter. (don't give me an infraction, this is an experience) Why would you KILL and STRANGLE someone for selling drugs?! JUST ARREST HIM, don't do violence Government!

Reballoo
06-09-2015, 12:18 AM
It is really sad because "police misconduct" has become the new race card. People do bad things then just claim that the police officer was corrupt to get out of it. It is sad what society has come to. Then there are the people who use both the race card and police misconduct to get out of stuff. Everybody talks about how America is great because of it's freedom, but freedom is going to be our downfall. There is too much freedom. People hire lawyers to get them out hrough a loophole all the time and guilty people get away. All this "freedom" is screwing people over. The court system should rule on common sense. Loopholes shouldn't count. Like the Miranda case. That was stupid. They let him off because of a loophole, and they still do that. And when a man sued Redbull because he didn't sprout wings... He won too. This all relates back to the police being stupid. If this messed up system of loopholes was a little more intelligent, you would not only fire, but put people who do this in jail! They get off for loopholes! It is really getting under my skin that we have a system that lets horrible people get away with things because we allow loopholes!

Ignore the smily face title, that was an accident...

26FtW26
06-09-2015, 01:07 AM
It is really sad because "police misconduct" has become the new race card. People do bad things then just claim that the police officer was corrupt to get out of it. It is sad what society has come to. Then there are the people who use both the race card and police misconduct to get out of stuff. Everybody talks about how America is great because of it's freedom, but freedom is going to be our downfall. There is too much freedom. People hire lawyers to get them out hrough a loophole all the time and guilty people get away. All this "freedom" is screwing people over. The court system should rule on common sense. Loopholes shouldn't count. Like the Miranda case. That was stupid. They let him off because of a loophole, and they still do that. And when a man sued Redbull because he didn't sprout wings... He won too. This all relates back to the police being stupid. If this messed up system of loopholes was a little more intelligent, you would not only fire, but put people who do this in jail! They get off for loopholes! It is really getting under my skin that we have a system that lets horrible people get away with things because we allow loopholes!

Ignore the smily face title, that was an accident...

This is actually a little bit of a different subject, but yes, also true.
Those loopholes are not actually loopholes. They are there because officially, the court can not accept lies. They are technicalities.