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Space
10-09-2015, 04:49 AM
Because threads like these can escalate really quick read the rules before you post anything in here.

General Rules

-No foul language
-No discrimination
-Be respectful

Debate Rules

-always add an explanation

"The earth is a giant M&M" -wrong
"The earth is a giant M&M because it's kind of round and M&M's can be blue and green (like the earth mostly)" -good

-always add an explanation to your reply

"The Earth is an M&M? Pfff that's stupid" - wrong
"The Earth isn't an M&M for various reasons: 1. M&M are only one color 2. M&M's arent round 3. Etc etc." - good

-Imagine your grandma was reading this thread. Would she like to see you being disrespectful?



Here are some questions I'd like to discuss:

-Is god real?
-Would punishing someone for eternity who did nothing wrong except not believing in god be lawful?
-Would punishing even the worst people in history (Nero, Hitler, Vlad the impaler) for eternity be lawful?

Hans
10-09-2015, 06:51 AM
It's one sided, actually. The two things I hate about religion is how one-sided it can actually be and how people could use belief for alibis to evade humiliation, guilt, compensation, etc.

For example:

*In a science class, you need to prove a theory by itself to be right. When in religion, when questioned, you will answer by your faith and not by legitimate historical context before.

OR

*You have done something wrong, and you claim forgiveness from your God so that you may be once cleanse again. After that, you do it over again and you repeat the process. You will NOT feel guilt because you instead blatantly proclaimed that you are cleansed of wrong doings. It's the other way around of just saying that "I have become used to wrong doings".


All in all, I just believe. I do not want to impose such asinine behavior just to boast off my faith, that is why I try to avoid religious conflict ANYWHERE. For me, 'tis rather if I believe my God once rose again, or not. That is all.

Hans
10-09-2015, 07:05 AM
Q: Is god real?
A: No, for situations that seem to be true, people just try to come up with excuses that would otherwise have happened naturally - assuming that the person also has a positive self-esteem.
The determination to recover from an illness is what matters, and because people believe in God, that's how they have better determination to recover.

Q: Would punishing someone for eternity who did nothing wrong except not beliving in god be lawful?
A: Definitely not. That would show that God is biased, which definitely isn't a good thing, or God simply wants the power for the sake of it, because the person did nothing wrong in the first place.

Q: Would punishing even the worst people in history for eternity be lawful?
A: Not for eternity, that's just weird. If they don't get a chance to change, they may as well be dead - or just commit suicide like Adolf Hitler.

The two first answers of yours are what makes me skeptic about the whole "religious" stuff. I just don't seem to understand what's what, since what they claim as "blessings" have very logical explanations behind them, and when I try to explain, they either retaliate me with something religious or "You lack faith". 'Tis ironic. I do not know who's paranoid, really. Is it them or me?

Christopher
10-09-2015, 07:20 AM
I feel like the title "Civilized" is just an excuse to argue with people that believe in God(s)

26FtW26
10-09-2015, 07:22 AM
I find that religion is either for cowards, or those who seek the truth.
I personally am not religious, but my father is Christian. Many religious people use their religion as an excuse for what they have done. In my opinion, religion takes away a part of your freedom.

Hans
10-09-2015, 07:23 AM
I would say that it depends, but if you already have positive self esteem, then it's just them.

Situation 1: In a Catholic school I went, we would say prayers every morning, some of them very long. To the young students, the counselor would make the person (who, for example, items were stolen from) fill up a reflection sheet. The counselor would then read it, and when he reads it and finds:

1. There's nothing wrong the person did
- The counselor would make the person think back harder, until he writes something wrong

2. The victim written that he/she did something wrong in the past
- The counselor would tell the person to not do anything wrong in the future or "God will punish them".

Situation 2: In the same Catholic school, one teacher told us that she had a very bad leg sprain (or was it physical injury? Long time ago.). Then she told us she would pray to God every morning, and one day it would suddenly go away. Then another teacher would tell us some usual school student quotes such as "Believe in yourself", "I can do it!", which means that it is all about positive self-esteem.

Concerning religion, I think I have an immense amount of distrust regarding humans, and not my belief. It is either I do not bother their practice, OR they bother mine.

Christopher
10-09-2015, 07:24 AM
Many religious people use their religion as an excuse for what they have done..
Like what?

Hans
10-09-2015, 07:27 AM
I find that religion is either for cowards, or those who seek the truth.
I personally am not religious, but my father is Christian. Many religious people use their religion as an excuse for what they have done. In my opinion, religion takes away a part of your freedom.

No. Religion gives you WAAAAY more freedom than you think. Especially with those of malicious thought. Nobody said that you had to follow it, that is why people keep executing wrong doings and ask for "forgiveness" and then execute another one.

All in all, it depends on your motives. What you seek, and what you long for. Personally, I would say there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with God (including that you people do not believe in God, it is impossible to say that you would say that there is something wrong with God), but rather God's people are wrong. They interpret simple commands to bring humans closer to wrong and malicious thoughts.

Christopher
10-09-2015, 07:27 AM
"I recovered quickly from this illness because I helped a poor old lady in the past!"

That sounds like karma to me, and doesn't sound like an excuse :crazy:

26FtW26
10-09-2015, 07:31 AM
Like what?

Okay, saying "many" was untrue. But I once had a teacher who started giving me worse grades because I said Christ's name around her.
Forget that tho.

Religion has also caused uncountable deaths.

Christopher
10-09-2015, 07:33 AM
"I am now ill because I did not apologize to the old lady whom I accidentally made her trip and fall"

Actually I'm not so sure, but it was taught that way in the two previous Catholic school I went, the current one focuses more on studies than this kind of stuff.

Not apologizing to woman making you ill. That sounds exactly like karma :scratch: I think in your Catholic school they were teaching you Buddhism :scratch:

26FtW26
10-09-2015, 07:34 AM
No. Religion gives you WAAAAY more freedom than you think. Especially with those of malicious thought. Nobody said that you had to follow it, that is why people keep executing wrong doings and ask for "forgiveness" and then execute another one.

All in all, it depends on your motives. What you seek, and what you long for. Personally, I would say there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with God (including that you people do not believe in God, it is impossible to say that you would say that there is something wrong with God), but rather God's people are wrong. They interpret simple commands to bring humans closer to wrong and malicious thoughts.
I's rather do something wrong and go on with my life than keep having to ask for forgiveness.

- - - Updated - - -


Not apologizing to woman making you ill. That sounds exactly like karma :scratch: I think in your Catholic school they were teaching you Buddhism :scratch:

Lmao:cool:

Christopher
10-09-2015, 07:37 AM
Okay, saying "many" was untrue. But I once had a teacher who started giving me worse grades because I said Christ's name around her.
Forget that tho.

Religion has also caused uncountable deaths.

My teacher said there was this famous criminal that made his own religion and was wanted from the police, so he convinced and forced everybody in his religion to kill themselves.

I don't know why he had to make a religion to get away from the police, that made no sense.

Hans
10-09-2015, 07:39 AM
I's rather do something wrong and go on with my life than keep having to ask for forgiveness.

- - - Updated - - -



Lmao:cool:

This isn't religious based, but yes, rather. This is the absolute pathetic reason why humans have broken this world.

Doing wrong, and getting used to it. Not being guilty and imposing that you are some kind of superior. Even without religion, ANYONE would know this. Asking for forgiveness (even not from God) to anyone because you feel guilt proves that you at least have some shame on yourself.

I've seen countless of shows, animes, movies in which the protagonist gets used to killing people, not being guilty, and ends up with mass-destruction. In the end, nothing proved nothing.

Christopher
10-09-2015, 07:44 AM
-Would punishing even the worst people in history (Nero, Hitler, Vlad the impaler) for eternity be lawful?

I think it's lawful (whatever that means)

I don't know who Nero or Vlad is but if they died with sin then they must be burned in the lake of fire :wave: for all of eternity

Seraphim
10-09-2015, 07:48 AM
Personally, I am agnostic, so maybe I don't have as much of a right in a religious conversation, but I think that religion is something of a double edged sword. Sure, you've got your religious radicalism - ISIS, the Holy Crusades, etc - and religious hate - such as the Westboro Baptist Church. However, religion isn't just violence and sadness and such. Religion also allows people to put their faith in something in their dark times, and encourages mostly positive, if not wholely positive - ideas, i.e. The New Testament conveying love for your fellow neighbor and charity for the poor. ( Sure I can admit, people can twist that stuff.) Religion has also helped create the basis for human law - Catholicism's Ten Commandment's outlawing murder. Religion has also been growing more progressive over the years, even if individuals don't like it, as people like Pope Francis has been trying to introduce science in Catholicism. All in all I can understand hatred for religion, but I find it difficult to believe that someone says that religion is of no good.

Space
10-09-2015, 01:43 PM
I feel like the title "Civilized" is just an excuse to argue with people that believe in God(s)

That's kind of the point of this thread...

Mr T.
10-09-2015, 02:09 PM
I, myself, am religious, I don't believe in the afterlife but I believe that heaven and hell exist.
Why?
I believe that our life on earth is just a test, and when we die, our judgement will come which will decide if we go to hell or heaven.

Also, scientist could explain the Big Bang, but it just doesen't fit, there has to be a higher ententity, if there was nothing in the beginning.


My opinion: People which don't believe in god are afraid of the consequences which they will meet when their life is over.

Punch
10-09-2015, 03:31 PM
Because threads like these can escalate really quick read the rules before you post anything in here.

General Rules

-No foul language
-No discrimination
-Be respectful

Debate Rules

-always add an explanation

"The earth is a giant M&M" -wrong
"The earth is a giant M&M because it's kind of round and M&M's can be blue and green (like the earth mostly)" -good

-always add an explanation to your reply

"The Earth is an M&M? Pfff that's stupid" - wrong
"The Earth isn't an M&M for various reasons: 1. M&M are only one color 2. M&M's arent round 3. Etc etc." - good

-Imagine your grandma was reading this thread. Would she like to see you being disrespectful?



Here are some questions I'd like to discuss:

-Is god real?
-Would punishing someone for eternity who did nothing wrong except not believing in god be lawful?
-Would punishing even the worst people in history (Nero, Hitler, Vlad the impaler) for eternity be lawful?

a.) Noone have prove.
b.) Nonono, that would be very unfair, since if someone is a very nice and helpful person, and got sent to HELL because he doesn't believes in God, thats just unfair.
c.) It is not lawful, Hitler's case is actually can be seen as Monkey See Monkey Do, he was a WW 1 soldier who got injured terribly by Poisonous Gas, although he is wrong and deserves punishment, 200 years(?) of hell would be nice.

Boomer
10-09-2015, 03:48 PM
I'm muslim and i'd say I get tons of discrimination that isn't true. Especially since muslims have Idiots Who really arnt even muslim, Being the face of the religion everywhere. For example, isis is a group that Looks muslim, but really arnt. Pretty sure 90% of everyone here thinks isis is a muslim based Group. But in reality on The Quaron, they'd all go to hell

So what religion are they? Murderists?

Punch
10-09-2015, 03:50 PM
I'm muslim and i'd say I get tons of discrimination that isn't true. Especially since muslims have Idiots Who really arnt even muslim, Being the face of the religion everywhere. For example, isis is a group that Looks muslim, but really arnt. Pretty sure 90% of everyone here thinks isis is a muslim based Group. But in reality on The Quaron, they'd all go to hell

Actually, all religions are equal, or at least from my sight of view, ISIS is a group of extremes who have an extremely wrong concept, in my country, muslims are the majority, even though I'm religionless, most of the muslims I met doesn't deserves to be called muslims, notice that intelectual and nice muslims are out there.

Boomer
10-09-2015, 03:54 PM
Well, think about it this way. If its against your religion (islam) to murder, but youve murdered 100000 people, are you really still muslim?

True, but didn't the Koran say somewhere about taking out all non-Muslims?

Punch
10-09-2015, 03:59 PM
Well, think about it this way. If its against your religion (islam) to murder, but youve murdered 100000 people, are you really still muslim?

- - - Updated - - -



Exactly, while they ARE "muslim" they dont follow The religion at all

It's not 100000, its 999999..
They are techniclly muslims, they probably dont even know the meaning of manners which is mentioned in the Al quran(Sorry if I mispelled it,I do read holy religion books, just to help me decide which religion imma pick later)

AtherGade
10-09-2015, 04:13 PM
Because threads like these can escalate really quick read the rules before you post anything in here.

General Rules

-No foul language
-No discrimination
-Be respectful

Debate Rules

-always add an explanation

"The earth is a giant M&M" -wrong
"The earth is a giant M&M because it's kind of round and M&M's can be blue and green (like the earth mostly)" -good

-always add an explanation to your reply

"The Earth is an M&M? Pfff that's stupid" - wrong
"The Earth isn't an M&M for various reasons: 1. M&M are only one color 2. M&M's arent round 3. Etc etc." - good

-Imagine your grandma was reading this thread. Would she like to see you being disrespectful?



Here are some questions I'd like to discuss:

-Is god real?
-Would punishing someone for eternity who did nothing wrong except not believing in god be lawful?
-Would punishing even the worst people in history (Nero, Hitler, Vlad the impaler) for eternity be lawful?
I am like a half kinda atheist, I don't believe In any religion but I believe in the supernatural, ghosts, aliens and all them things. It all ties up like a perfect knot, the whole world is like a system that Is lead by evil. I could just spend the next 30 minutes of my life writing about how the world works, not literally how it works but all the things those men in suits hide from the public. We are all fishing in troubled waters to find the truth about the things we do not believe. I really want to say something but I think It might be offensive and I don't know how people would react so I will keep my mouth shut for the time being. The one and only thing I hate about this planet is extremists, muslim extremists.
I just don't understand people who would do anything for their follower that inflicts pain onto them or someone else, for example self-flaggellation or terrorism, It just makes me think twice on what world Im living on.

EDIT: Sorry If I'm not answering your questions but I don't think think there is any need for me.

Space
10-09-2015, 04:15 PM
a.) Noone have prove.
b.) Nonono, that would be very unfair, since if someone is a very nice and helpful person, and got sent to HELL because he doesn't believes in God, thats just unfair.
c.) It is not lawful, Hitler's case is actually can be seen as Monkey See Monkey Do, he was a WW 1 soldier who got injured terribly by Poisonous Gas, although he is wrong and deserves punishment, 200 years(?) of hell would be nice.

Exactly, not even the worst human would deserve eternal pain. That sounds quite immoral.