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View Full Version : The piont scoring system is all f'd up



Roadkill
12-01-2011, 05:01 AM
Sorry guys but here goes. I have been thrown into several games tonight that were 2 v 1. I have won against 600p players and gotten 20 or so points. On the other hand, I have been up against 6 and 700 p players and if I lost I got tagged nearly 30 points. Seth says it is a %.... Bullshit. When a 250 player loses 24 points and a 6 or 700 point player only loses the same amount, then the game is not fair and the % is not the same. Seth...%...then make it the same amount for them as well. 10% for a 700 p player is 70 points...not the same amount you ding a 200 p player. And while I'm on it. If a 200 p player plays a 2000 p player. Do you really think it is f'ing fair to give the 200 point player a major point deduction if he loses. No wonder they all stack up on the same side. Maybe you should look at giving the winner just a few points in this case...after all, they really didn't risk much. If the underdog wins, then reward them. Right now, your game is set to keep the new players down.

don't really care if you ban me... The game is not something that everyone can enjoy. You have a f'd up point system.

roadkill

Seth
12-01-2011, 05:11 AM
I am very interested in fixing any bugs, so I'm just going to paste the email reply I gave you here too, for the benefit of everyone:


Hmm, if that happens again could you please take a screenshot of the end scores and send it to me? I can use that info and match it up with the real game data, will help me fix the bug.

Keep in mind the percentages taken depend on the game mode and the placement of each player. Also, if you tie with someone, points can get split between you so you could end up winning very little overall.

(In case you don't know how to take a screenshot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQMKSNPs4gI )

yellow
12-01-2011, 07:13 AM
The point system is a tough one to figure out. I think the way he explains it make sense and is the best method... But there are a lot of inconsistencies. The biggest one I found and have seen repeatedly (I sent a screenshot a few days ago) is when a second place player loses more points the people who finish below them (players below have more career points). I see this all the time in 4 player games. It's happened to me several times and have seen it happen to others as well.

Also I'm definitely not playing team games again until it is fixed. I really like it but everyone or at least several people just switches to the best team and if you get stuck on the other side and people enter the room and it launches you are screwed. Then they usually leave the game and you get slaughtered.

soccerfu
12-01-2011, 12:16 PM
The biggest one I found and have seen repeatedly (I sent a screenshot a few days ago) is when a second place player loses more points the people who finish below them (players below have more career points). I see this all the time in 4 player games. It's happened to me several times and have seen it happen to others as well.
I have encountered this bug to except it never happened to me just to the other players who fall victim to 2, 3 or 4.:p But i agree this bug needs to be fixed badly. If i can I will get a screenshot and post it here.

soccerfu
12-03-2011, 03:27 PM
Also I'm definitely not playing team games again until it is fixed. I really like it but everyone or at least several people just switches to the best team and if you get stuck on the other side and people enter the room and it launches you are screwed. Then they usually leave the game and you get slaughtered.That is so annoying!:mad:

Blitz
12-03-2011, 03:27 PM
I'd also like to suggest that people who leave the battle (remember.. They are physically choosing to forfeit), but end up on the winning side, don't get to share in the points. They should get no points! Too many times people leave at the beginning of the battle, register 0 kills, and then get a share of the points I've worked hard to get. Any way, thought I'd get on my soapbox.

soccerfu
12-03-2011, 03:30 PM
I'd also like to suggest that people who leave the battle (remember.. They are physically choosing to forfeit), but end up on the winning side, don't get to share in the points. They should get no points! Too many times people leave at the beginning of the battle, register 0 kills, and then get a share of the points I've worked hard to get. Any way, thought I'd get on my soapbox.I agree this happens to me tons of times. I think that to because it is not fair that i earn points for them to get some of them to. I think it is very unfair. i mean one time i gave a white that didn't deserve it 33 points and he left and was on my team. I do not like giving points to people who didnt earn them.:mad:

Roadkill
12-13-2011, 01:53 AM
Seth,

I finally got around to taking a some screen shots. I removed the names of the players and I would just ask that you look at the total blue vs red in each screenshot. Why are you taking so many points from the weaker players when they lose. This only facilitates everyone to jump on the power side. Even when you win against much higher ranked players, the points awarded are not inline with the risk. The only way to gain points is to make sure you are most always on the power team. I might suggest that when one team is loaded vs the other, then the losers only lose a very few, and winners gain less then what the losers lost. If you want all to enjoy this game, then a more appropriate risk/reward point system should be implemented.

Roadkill

yellow
12-14-2011, 01:26 AM
New scoring system is pretty interesting. Like Seth stated, if you have several high level players points will go up. Today I played a few games with mostly blues and up and most games points won were over 200 and sometimes over 400 points. Its rough if you lose but it definitely makes things more interesting. Im a fan so far.

soccerfu
12-14-2011, 01:41 AM
I agree the points system is at the best as its ever been in the team mode.

TPNFRC
12-14-2011, 05:45 PM
Seth,

I finally got around to taking a some screen shots. I removed the names of the players and I would just ask that you look at the total blue vs red in each screenshot. Why are you taking so many points from the weaker players when they lose. This only facilitates everyone to jump on the power side. Even when you win against much higher ranked players, the points awarded are not inline with the risk. The only way to gain points is to make sure you are most always on the power team. I might suggest that when one team is loaded vs the other, then the losers only lose a very few, and winners gain less then what the losers lost. If you want all to enjoy this game, then a more appropriate risk/reward point system should be implemented.

Roadkill

At first I didn't know what Roadkill was talking about but today I saw it. I couldn't take a screen shot but here is what happened.

I played a single player match, perfer less people. It was me, a pink (abt 2200 pts), a blue ( abt 730 pts), and a white ( abt 70 pts). I won and got abt 118 pts total. The pink player only lost about 37 pts where as the blue player lost abt 73 pts and the white lost abt 8 pts. How is this fair?!

The pink player who has the most points, beside me, only loses 37 where as blue player lost the most 73 pts!

Something is not right. I looked at the end score for about 5 mins to make sure ;)

soccerfu
12-14-2011, 11:02 PM
It depends on what position they placed.

Roadkill
12-16-2011, 01:05 AM
Seth,

Help me understand your reasoning for the pointing system. I have attached a screenshot from a real killing today. I clicked on the prefer less people tab and before I could react, I was sucked into this...my bad, all part of the game.
But, please explain to me why a Player with 4912 points would only lose 41 points, yet I had 380 and lost 42 points. I realize i did very poorly in the game, but to lose over 10% of my total points, when he only looses less than 1%.

Roadkill

soccerfu
12-16-2011, 01:08 AM
That is very weird. Seth I dont think this is supposed to be happening. Very wrong things are starting to occur and destroy our peaceful would of Tanked.:(:(

Seth
12-16-2011, 01:40 AM
Seth,

Help me understand your reasoning for the pointing system. I have attached a screenshot from a real killing today. I clicked on the prefer less people tab and before I could react, I was sucked into this...my bad, all part of the game.
But, please explain to me why a Player with 4912 points would only lose 41 points, yet I had 380 and lost 42 points. I realize i did very poorly in the game, but to lose over 10% of my total points, when he only looses less than 1%.

Roadkill

Hmm, don't see a screenshot? But what's happening is it's limiting the CP used for the point math to the average of all players in the game, then it it takes 5% or 10% whatever based on final placement, so in theory that could happen if the 4912 placed higher.

Roadkill
12-16-2011, 02:02 AM
Hmm, don't see a screenshot? But what's happening is it's limiting the CP used for the point math to the average of all players in the game, then it it takes 5% or 10% whatever based on final placement, so in theory that could happen if the 4912 placed higher.


Sorry...my bad...forgot to attach the SC. Hope this helps.

soccerfu
12-16-2011, 12:12 PM
Yup, its because the pink player finished way higher then you did. thats why you lost more points then he did.

Roadkill
12-17-2011, 01:57 AM
Again...love the game...hate the scoring system. This is really not what you think is fair? 4 players against 2. And one with over 1700 points. Yet I lose 20. (see the attached)

Seth
12-17-2011, 02:06 AM
Roadkill: Was that team game in a private room? Only private rooms should allow a 4 on 2 match... (public rooms required the same # of players on both teams.. even if they dropped out, they'd still be on the roster, I think...)

Also, "forced balancing" in team games is coming...

Roadkill
12-17-2011, 02:16 AM
Again...love the game...hate the scoring system. This is really not what you think is fair? 4 players against 2. And one with over 1700 points. Yet I lose 20. (see the attached #7)

The very next game I play, Rawmilk gets a raw deal (sorry buddy) and is overwhelmed by more players. Still, the original count and teams seemed to be even. Yet, Rawmilk loses just 13 points of his 963. (attached #8). How is it that I lose more points in the previous game.

Seth
12-17-2011, 02:42 AM
Add all the CP from all the players together, then divide it by the number of players - now make sure, for scoring purposes, to limit everyone's CP to that average. Because Sentinal was in the first game, the average moved up - you lost more, but you also would have gained more. Does that make sense? In other words, if you play in a game with seven 20 CP players, you will barely lose anything, as it was a very "low stakes" game.

This seems to be working correctly.

Roadkill
12-17-2011, 03:29 AM
Roadkill: Was that team game in a private room? Only private rooms should allow a 4 on 2 match... (public rooms required the same # of players on both teams.. even if they dropped out, they'd still be on the roster, I think...)

Also, "forced balancing" in team games is coming...

That game was from the lobby...nothing private about it.

and the balancing will be great. I work (lol) very hard earning 2 or 4 points per game only to get sucked into a game where it is totally one sided...and there goes my 20 points again. I don't even want to think about how many times I have ended up in that position...how's that go...no luck at all.

Roadkill
12-17-2011, 03:49 AM
Again...sucked into another one...

Fair...not even close. 4 vs 3 (red) and one of the 3 dropped out, making it 2 vs 4. Even among the 3, The game was really stacked. That's fine...I enjoyed the play....but, to lose 19 points. Now that's really messed up. Really.

Seth
12-17-2011, 04:03 AM
Yeah, something is broken, it shouldn't be letting uneven teams start.. are people quitting right away so quick they don't even show as gray or something?

Roadkill
12-17-2011, 04:59 AM
I have no idea if they are quitting right before the start. Generally, when this happens, I just click on "connect" and I am launched into the game. I don't even know who is there. The game starts and I quickly find out I'm on the wrong team...if you know what I mean. As you can see...they were not even greyed out

Play1
12-17-2011, 07:13 AM
I'd be happy to see points scrapped in team games. So much depends on who you're playing with. It encourages players to switch teams to be in a stronger team and rarely is fair.

soccerfu
12-17-2011, 12:34 PM
Yeah, something is broken, it shouldn't be letting uneven teams start.. are people quitting right away so quick they don't even show as gray or something?yup a teammate of mine left early and the name isn't even on the score sheet. Btw...... Roadkill don't you know that it is just 20 that you keep losing. When I lose I lose about 3 to 4 times as much as you do.

rawmilk
12-17-2011, 06:51 PM
I think losses in lobby games need to be more equitable.

The current process deters high rank players from entering the lobby.

It happens to all of us, but you lose 3 times more points in lobby games than if you win. I lose 20-30 points in lobby games and then I win 3-5 depending on who I am playing. It can get frustrating. I played for two hours this morning, just lobby games, trying to get over 1100 but every time I lost it would set me back 20 points and then I would have to play another 5 games to make up what I lost.

I feel like the VIP scoring is more fair because if you lose you can make up just as many points by winning the next game.

I don't mind losing games or points for that matter, just hate having to spend an hour plus trying to make up points from a game where everyone left or the teams were uneven.

Any thoughts? Anything we can do to adjust this?

soccerfu
12-17-2011, 06:53 PM
I think losses in lobby games need to be more equitable.

The current process deters high rank players from entering the lobby.

It happens to all of us, but you lose 3 times more points in lobby games than if you win. I lose 20-30 points in lobby games and then I win 3-5 depending on who I am playing. It can get frustrating. I played for two hours this morning, just lobby games, trying to get over 1100 but every time I lost it would set me back 20 points and then I would have to play another 5 games to make up what I lost.

I feel like the VIP scoring is more fair because if you lose you can make up just as many points by winning the next game.

I don't mind losing games or points for that matter, just hate having to spend an hour plus trying to make up points from a game where everyone left or the teams were uneven.

Any thoughts? Anything we can do to adjust this?You talking about the team lobby right.

rawmilk
12-17-2011, 07:36 PM
You talking about the team lobby right.

Yah team lobby.

soccerfu
12-18-2011, 02:28 PM
OK. now i know not to play in the team lobby.:)

Coalition
12-19-2011, 02:00 AM
That game was from the lobby...nothing private about it.

and the balancing will be great. I work (lol) very hard earning 2 or 4 points per game only to get sucked into a game where it is totally one sided...and there goes my 20 points again. I don't even want to think about how many times I have ended up in that position...how's that go...no luck at all.

Man I feel like I'm reading myself talking. I even used the same terminology in another thread. This happens to me so often that I'm just afraid to play. Then I just tell myself f*k it, and just get sucked into game after game after game where everything is stacked, have no choice, have no vote, plummet to white, crawl for days up to green again.... agh.. I'm right there with ya, buddy.

Then I go the the tavern, drink myself to sleep, wake up and gamble what little I have away. Then like magic I'm up to 400 again. Repeat.

Let's face it; us lower ranks are just cannon fodder for the upper ranks.

rpro
12-19-2011, 04:22 AM
Yeah, something is broken, it shouldn't be letting uneven teams start.. are people quitting right away so quick they don't even show as gray or something?

I joined into a team VIP game the other day, it started immediately before I could even see who was in the groups and found that the game started 3 vs me only. -50 points later... No one had dropped. Wish I had taken a screen shot of it.

Roadkill
12-21-2011, 02:04 AM
Again...how and why do you take 18 points from a 352 point player to cover a 2397 and 90 player? Do you really think I had a chance of winning that one? Maybe you should start using a % of total points. I know the winners would not get as much in this case, but then really, should they get 10 each.

BTW...good game bemz.

Seth
12-21-2011, 02:18 AM
Again...how and why do you take 18 points from a 352 point player to cover a 2397 and 90 player? Do you really think I had a chance of winning that one? Maybe you should start using a % of total points. I know the winners would not get as much in this case, but then really, should they get 10 each.

You lose 5% of your points, or of the "game average" points (the average of all players in the game, which is maxed out at 2000), whichever is lower. 17.6 is 5%, so 18 is correct. (rounded up..)

Roadkill
12-21-2011, 02:41 AM
Here is another one. This time I won and was rewarded 6 points. The player with 362 points only lost -10 points, not 5% of his points, which would have been 18. Total team average at 5% loss would be over 20 points. I do think the scoring in this screenshot is more fair than my previous post where I lost 18 points to someone with nearly 2400 points. Why do you cap it at 2000 points.

Seth
12-21-2011, 03:24 AM
Here is another one. This time I won and was rewarded 6 points. The player with 362 points only lost -10 points, not 5% of his points, which would have been 18. Total team average at 5% loss would be over 20 points. I do think the scoring in this screenshot is more fair than my previous post where I lost 18 points to someone with nearly 2400 points. Why do you cap it at 2000 points.

Ok, step one.. what is the average score of all players in that game?

Step two, realize that everyone's score will be capped to that for scoring purposes.

Step 3, realize that 5% of 203 is ... you guessed it, 10.

km2000
12-22-2011, 08:50 PM
So perhaps it was discussed elsewhere, but I missed it...but, I am BRAND new at this game. I tried to understand the scoring but I am not yet fully up to speed. I got so angry (and I MIGHT have, like 50 pts) when I was the 2nd place tank after the "mission", and I killed 4, only got killed once, and LOST points...(Egypt). How can that happen...there were like, 7 people in the match?

soccerfu
12-22-2011, 08:54 PM
So perhaps it was discussed elsewhere, but I missed it...but, I am BRAND new at this game. I tried to understand the scoring but I am not yet fully up to speed. I got so angry (and I MIGHT have, like 50 pts) when I was the 2nd place tank after the "mission", and I killed 4, only got killed once, and LOST points...(Egypt). How can that happen...there were like, 7 people in the match?After what mission? about the score. did you finish second or what are you talking about?

km2000
12-22-2011, 08:57 PM
After what mission? about the score. did you finish second or what are you talking about?

Pardon the improper terminology...the "match" (military background; hard habit to break), and yes, I finished second of all the tankers (sorry if that is not the right geek speak), with either 4/1 or a 5/1 (don't remember), but when the match was over, I lost points....how does that happen? What's the point of killing more tanks than I lose if I can still lose points?

soccerfu
12-22-2011, 08:59 PM
must have been a bug. How many people where still there at the end of the round?

km2000
12-22-2011, 09:24 PM
must have been a bug. How many people where still there at the end of the round?

I don't remember...like I said, still WAY new at it...where does the gambling thing take place?!

soccerfu
12-22-2011, 09:36 PM
At the tavern. to go there type /tavern.

soccerfu
12-22-2011, 09:38 PM
I don't remember...like I said, still WAY new at it...where does the gambling thing take place?!Do you know how to tell how many people are left? here is how. on the end of the score screen the faded names are the ones that have either left or lost connection. the bright white ones are the ones still there.

Blast07
01-08-2012, 09:29 PM
Seth, just to let you know, I faced interesting scoring issue.
Below is the list of looser tanks and their scoring:
1st: 146 pts, lost 16 pts
2nd: 369 pts, lost 40 pts
3rd: 123 pts, lost 14 pts
4th: 1328 pts, lost 41 pts
5th: 17 pts, lost 1 pts

1st,2nd and 3rd lost 10% (this is ok ), 4th lost only 3% !!!(that is strange due to high rank of player), 5th 6% (it's ok because low user scoring)
It is not a big deal because I won this battle therefore my scoring is ok for me :) but I think it is a bit unfair for green looser players

684

Seth
01-09-2012, 12:51 AM
1st: 146 pts, lost 16 pts
2nd: 369 pts, lost 40 pts
3rd: 123 pts, lost 14 pts
4th: 1328 pts, lost 41 pts
5th: 17 pts, lost 1 pts

Hmm, average CP was 411, so the 1328 cp guy would have been capped at that. At 10%, -41 is correct.

However, why the heck did the 2nd place (well, he's really 3rd or fourth, depending on how you count the tie) guy lose 40? Should have been 36 (at 10%...) And 3rd should be 12, not 14. I suspect I'm doing something wrong mathematically due to the tie for second that took place

-1 for the 17 cp guy is correct due to rounding. (10% of 17 is 1.7, so that would be 1)

Blast07
01-09-2012, 09:49 AM
ok, now is clear, you use Average value for counting result

I gues that final scoring shows figures AFTER modification, but you know that better :p



Rank

Before:

After:

Calculated 10% result:
Real loose:
Precentage loose



1st:
162
146
16.2
16
9.88%


2nd:
409
369
40.9
40
9.78%


3rd:
137
123
13.7
14
10.22%


4th:
1369
1328
136.9
41
2.99%


5th:
18
17
1.8
1
5.56%