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anonymous1
04-06-2012, 11:46 PM
Hi Seth,

Thanks for you good work. The new update is awesome and fun. There is a lot of differences with the new version and the old version. The old version everyone has the same vehicle and I would say about 90% was depended on your skill and about 10% luck. For the new version, about 90% of the time it would requires more of what tank/vehicle you were driving, not your skill. To try to make it fair for everyone, here are my suggestions:

1. People who drive better tanks should lose more points if they lose to weaker tanks. Just like when the higher CP lose more then the lower CP.

2. An option could be added for people with similar tanks to battle against one another and this room option wouldn't require to lose more points because all tanks in the room would have similar tanks. Also, this option would require more skill than a "better tank".

soccerfu
04-07-2012, 12:49 AM
All the tanks are fair. Nothing "unfair" about them. The only "better" tank in the game is the rtsoft tank. There is no need to add another room because all the tanks have a strength while they have a weakness. So therefore there is no unfairness about it. Its just skill. Not the tank. A good player can defeat a ok player in a rtsoft tank if they know how to use the tank that they have.

Seth
04-07-2012, 01:18 AM
My goal is to keep the game 90% skill, not 10%. I regularly see the RTsoft tank getting beat down by M3's, so I don't think it's outrageously powerful. I'm less sure about the Skull right now, I think I'm going weaken it just a bit in some way...

soccerfu
04-07-2012, 01:20 AM
In what way? I like the skull the way it is. Oh and Seth historically the m3 Stewart was spelled Stuart.

Seth
04-07-2012, 01:29 AM
In what way? I like the skull the way it is. Oh and Seth historically the m3 Stewart was spelled Stuart.

Oops, will fix spelling..! Not sure on the Skull.. maybe drop the speed a notch.

soccerfu
04-07-2012, 01:31 AM
well i guess it is a little fast but it has little armour so shouldn't it be faster than the Stuart?

anonymous1
04-07-2012, 02:46 AM
My goal is to keep the game 90% skill, not 10%. I regularly see the RTsoft tank getting beat down by M3's, so I don't think it's outrageously powerful. I'm less sure about the Skull right now, I think I'm going weaken it just a bit in some way...

I totally agree with you. The Skull is out of control now. So it should be weaken by a lot.

anonymous1
04-07-2012, 02:50 AM
All the tanks are fair. Nothing "unfair" about them. The only "better" tank in the game is the rtsoft tank. There is no need to add another room because all the tanks have a strength while they have a weakness. So therefore there is no unfairness about it. Its just skill. Not the tank. A good player can defeat a ok player in a rtsoft tank if they know how to use the tank that they have.

I disagree with you, if every tank was supposedly fair then why would people spend money to buy coins to buy tanks? Obviously the tank makes difference.

dontshoot
04-07-2012, 03:37 AM
seth i think reducing skull speed is good, now its more balance. I can still make a lot of killing with the current speed but not as many as before.

Now how about that RTSOFT tank.
on Team game I can still win against RTSoft tank unless is driven by Soccer, TP, Play , etc... but its really hard! I think RTSOFT tank upset the balance.

bacon1
04-07-2012, 06:11 AM
I disagree with you, if every tank was supposedly fair then why would people spend money to buy coins to buy tanks? Obviously the tank makes difference.

People shell out for tanks because each individual person has their own skill set. If you are good at everything, you keep the m3. If you can effectively sneak up on people, you get the skull. So each tank caters to people's certain needs. If you can stay out of danger, lose some armor. If you want to kill people fast, get stronger damage. Speed helps people get crates. The only tank that is better in and of itself is the rtsoft tank, but that costs 40 bucks if someone was to buy it.

soccerfu
04-07-2012, 11:16 AM
I disagree with you, if every tank was supposedly fair then why would people spend money to buy coins to buy tanks? Obviously the tank makes difference.
Yeah it does in a way but it doesn't make a huge difference but it would be ok with me if you take a notch down on the speed for the skull.

soccerfu
04-07-2012, 11:19 AM
seth i think reducing skull speed is good, now its more balance. I can still make a lot of killing with the current speed but not as many as before.

Now how about that RTSOFT tank.
on Team game I can still win against RTSoft tank unless is driven by Soccer, TP, Play , etc... but its really hard! I think RTSOFT tank upset the balance.
First of all I agree with what bacon said. Yeah in a rtsoft tank I would burn anything and everything in my way down the the ground. Might even beat tp. But yeah the rtsoft tank has upset the balance.

soccerfu
04-07-2012, 11:25 AM
But now that I think of it all tanks are equal. Just like the old version 90% skill 10% luck. Anonymous maybe you either are not good at the tank you have or don't know how to use it. I am good at the skull because I can sneak up on people. So try all the tanks and see which one you are good at. Then tell us how hard it is.:D

Seth
04-07-2012, 12:17 PM
I want RTsoft to be the best tank, but only 10% better. I may have to weaken it just a bit.. I'll be watching the birds-eye view of the stats of each vehicle to determine which balance changes need to happen, I need to setup better statistics...

bacon1
04-07-2012, 04:22 PM
It seems to me that people are complaining when good people get an rtsoft tank, because they can annihilate. They don't care if weak people have them because they don't know how to use them properly. So, logically, wouldn't the best thing to do be not to let the top 50 or so (sorry soccerfu) have an rtsoft tank? If the good players can't have it, and they can still beat players that do, wouldn't that solve the whole issue?

soccerfu
04-07-2012, 06:59 PM
It seems to me that people are complaining when good people get an rtsoft tank, because they can annihilate. They don't care if weak people have them because they don't know how to use them properly. So, logically, wouldn't the best thing to do be not to let the top 50 or so (sorry soccerfu) have an rtsoft tank? If the good players can't have it, and they can still beat players that do, wouldn't that solve the whole issue?

To late tpnfrc already has one that he PAYED for. I don't think Seth would want to make an enemy out of such a good player. But also i don't think that would be very fair because what if someone outside the top 50 gets an rtsoft tank and then comes into the top 50 he will still have it and that is not fair.

Play
04-07-2012, 09:14 PM
This debate of the tanks was bound to happen, so in anticipation of it, I have been taking screenshots of game results of players with different ranks using different tanks. I wanted to continue writing detailed descriptions of each tank as I started doing with the Panzer and Sherman in another thread, but since this debate has already been brought up, I just wanted to quickly share my opinion about all of this now and write the detailed descriptions later.

Most importantly, just as others have mentioned, each individual player has a certain style of playing. On top of this, each tank must be played a certain way to gain the full potential from that tank. If a "better" tank is played incorrectly, it will easily get beaten by a "regular" tank played correctly. I have multiple screenshots of the Skull and RTSsoft Tanks coming in last place and the M3's and Panzers coming in first place. I also have multiple screenshots of players with similar rankings playing different tanks and the game results show much variation...e.g. 1st place Sherman, 2nd place M3, 3rd place Skull, 4th place M3, 5th place Panzer, 6th place Sherman. My point is, this proves that it is NOT AT ALL based on what tank you are using, but instead on whether or not you know how to use the tank you are using. This is the genius of having different tanks...each tank has a learning curve that you need to understand and you also have to learn how to use it to exploit the weaknesses of each of the other tanks. This is MOSTLY SKILL.

As far as the Skull, based on my experience, it requires a very specific way of playing otherwise you will die almost instantly because of its low armor. One shot from any tank brings the Skull's health down to nearly zero, and only one shot from the Sherman or RTSoft Tank will kill it instantly. So, if you want to be good with the Skull, you have to play "stealthy". In a face-off, it is extremely prone to getting killed and will definitely die in a face off against the Sherman. So, in order to play "stealthy", the Skull MUST be faster than most tanks otherwise it would tip the balance and the Skull would become too weak, especially with the increasing number of Shermans out there.

However, having said that, based on my experience, I feel the Skull may be SLIGHTLY faster than it has to be without making it too weak. So, I agree that the speed could be taken taken down very slightly.

As far as the RTSoft Tank, I only have a little experience using this tank because I'm currently trying to master using the Skull. But I have played with the RTSoft Tank a few times and from the little experience I have with it, I do not think this tank needs to be made weaker. The armor has been reduced to the same amount as the M3. The speed is the same as the Spider. I'll share more thoughts about this tank once I start playing with it, but, as of now, I think this tank needs to be somewhat better than the other tanks...it's the RTSoft Tank.

EDIT: I just logged into the game and read the Skull has already been changed to be slower...so I guess this post was posted a little after the fact.

bacon1
04-08-2012, 01:07 AM
To late tpnfrc already has one that he PAYED for. I don't think Seth would want to make an enemy out of such a good player. But also i don't think that would be very fair because what if someone outside the top 50 gets an rtsoft tank and then comes into the top 50 he will still have it and that is not fair.

Well, just turn off the rtsoft tank option when one crosses over the top 50 line. As for those who already have it, and will probably never leave the top 50 (like tpnfrc), take back the tank and give a one time incentive, like points or something, because he won't need 10,000 coins.

bacon1
04-08-2012, 01:14 AM
I agree with Play, which is the same thing I said before. The tank doesn't really matter--it's the skill of the player that makes the difference. Although I haven't been able to try anything but the m3, I think it isn't a "weak" tank. I've played every type and been able to kill it in my m3. The skull is easy with a shield, and the panzer is very easy to kill. The m4 takes some work, but it can be done (same as the love tank). I haven't seen a spider in a while, but they are only a little fast, so it's the same as an m3 versus another m3. The rtsoft tank takes a little work, but a good use of powerups will get you through it.

Seth
04-08-2012, 01:32 AM
I think it would be really unfair to ever take away a tank because someone is good so that option is out - I do want to properly reward those that support the game! But continually re-balancing things so no tank is horrible and no tank is god-like is a must.

bacon1
04-08-2012, 01:47 AM
yeah, I know taking away tanks would be mean. It was just an idea I was throwing out. Maybe you could do a tank lottery once a week and give weak players an rtsoft tank (kinda like the coin lottery idea I told you about before.).

noobexpert
04-08-2012, 05:30 AM
There is a huge jump between the panzer and the m4 sherman. Perhaps you could add more tanks to fill this huge jump?

soccerfu
04-08-2012, 07:16 PM
Its not a "jump". its a learning curve.:D

noobexpert
04-08-2012, 08:00 PM
True, maybe adding more would disrupt the balance.

blg
04-09-2012, 06:51 AM
I may be wrong, but it appears that much of this conversation (and others) are dominated by the top players, so the perspective is not balanced. First of all, I love version 2, and Seth has done a great deal to attempt to provide variety without harming the non-paying players too greatly.

However, people are lying about the tank situation. The Skull is downright devastating if used in ever moderately skilled hands. It is especially powerful given the numerous lags that occur in the game, which confers an advantage upon the faster tanks. So while it technically can only be killed in two shots, there have been multiple instances where a Skull "magically" appears in front of me and I am dead without firing a single shot. I would therefore suggest that the reload speed be decreased so that it reloads slower than the Stuart but faster than the Sherman.

In regards to the RTSoft tank, it DOMINATES when in moderately skilled hands, especially with any tanks lower than the Spider. Yes, bad beginners are still going to be bad, but that's not the point. While it's fine to have a "top tank", I do agree that additional points should be deducted solely from RTSoft tank players when they lose. That way the disproportionate speed and power will be at least partially compensated by an elevated risk.

Of course needs to tailor one's strategy to each tank and against each tank. However, progression of tank purchases was not coincidental. Initially, the beginners constituted the majority of the tank purchasers and weren't much of a threat. However, as the medium level players started to purchase tanks and the top players started to lose points, then the top players "magically" started purchasing tanks. Now it obviously takes time to acquire the coins, however not that many top players have "earned" over 1,000 coins; they bought them once they felt threatened and realized the huge advantage of the more powerful tanks once used correctly.

I know that I am no pivotal player in this game, but many of the top players aren't being honest about the situation. Many of them are very skilled, but many also manipulate the system. Back in version 1, they would pick their favorite mode and would avoid playing with beginners. Version 2 has done a great job of remedying those issues. Now the tank situation is being exploited. I understand one needs money to maintain and improve the game, but the top tanks do not adhere to the "90% skill" standard. Either some sort of "prize" should be offered for "taking down" the top tanks, or they should be modified to be more balanced. But thanks Seth for all of the improvements, version 2 is great!

Seth
04-09-2012, 08:35 AM
Yep, I hear you blg, and I 100% agree that this game shouldn't degenerate into a "pay2win" type of deal to make a few quick bucks.

I'm taking steps to keep things (most) fair while still being able to reward supporters:

1. RTsoft tank's reload speed is going to be lowered to be the same as the M3 in the next server patch. This means it has only a 1 stat difference higher than the Spider, and two stats are 1 higher when compared to the M3.
2. Skull was recently weakened, I'm still watching it, need more data to know if it's still over-powered
3. I'm in the planning stages of an "Underdog Bonus" feature - extra CP/coins will be awarded when the game sees players overcoming the odds. (Both in single and team play) This appeals to me more than taking the extra CP directly from owners of nice tanks.

End result should be: People don't mind playing against tough tanks (or at least, mind less), with more CP being pumped into the "point economy", which I think it needs right now due to the Zero-sum game nature of the conflicts.

Any thoughts?

blg
04-09-2012, 09:28 AM
Seth, that sounds fantastic! Btw, I loved the fact that you alluded to game theory and economics in the same post!

noobexpert
04-09-2012, 10:59 AM
That definitley sounds like a good idea! Instead of taking career pts from higher players, add more opportunities for lower players to gain career pts. I love the idea!

soccerfu
04-09-2012, 12:14 PM
2. Skull was recently weakened, I'm still watching it, need more data to know if it's still over-powered


Any thoughts?

Yeah i got one. since the skull has been weakened i have lost points won less and not gaining any coins at all. Seth ever since the speed on the skull has been taken down a notch i have started to loose points! the skull isn't working for me anymore!

bacon1
04-09-2012, 12:19 PM
Good idea to give more points. Doesn't seem like that should anger anyone.

In reference to the notion that only "top players" are on this forum, I'd like to point out that I am not a "top player". Last time I checked I was #827 in rank, but that changes a lot. I only have about 260 points. Does that make me less credible? No. Does that give me less experience? No.

As for the "magically" appearing tanks, I'd chalk that up to lag. Get a faster connection.

bacon1
04-09-2012, 12:23 PM
As for changing the stats on tanks, I don't really care one way or the other. I am content with my ONE tank, the m3, and I'm content to lose all my coins to my gambling addiction. I don't have any other tanks, so change their stats as you will. Just as long as it makes the games better. So far, I've been able to prevail over all the types at least once.

TPNFRC
04-09-2012, 02:52 PM
Yep, I hear you blg, and I 100% agree that this game shouldn't degenerate into a "pay2win" type of deal to make a few quick bucks.

I'm taking steps to keep things (most) fair while still being able to reward supporters:

1. RTsoft tank's reload speed is going to be lowered to be the same as the M3 in the next server patch. This means it has only a 1 stat difference higher than the Spider, and two stats are 1 higher when compared to the M3.
2. Skull was recently weakened, I'm still watching it, need more data to know if it's still over-powered
3. I'm in the planning stages of an "Underdog Bonus" feature - extra CP/coins will be awarded when the game sees players overcoming the odds. (Both in single and team play) This appeals to me more than taking the extra CP directly from owners of nice tanks.

End result should be: People don't mind playing against tough tanks (or at least, mind less), with more CP being pumped into the "point economy", which I think it needs right now due to the Zero-sum game nature of the conflicts.

Any thoughts?


So the Spider has only one less disadvantage (stat) lower than the rtsoft, which is that the spider has a little less damage ability, very little! All the other stats including reload now are the same. The spider cost 500 coins and the rtsoft 10,000 coins a difference of 9,500 coins! So what your telling me is that 9,500 coins just gets you a little more damage, WOW! If I knew this was going to happen I would not have bought the rtsoft with money. I would have just used the coins I earned, which is over 2,000 coins by now if I hadn't given any away, and just bought the spider! I give 50 coins away everyday so all player can get a upgraded tank eventually.

I have read all the threads in reference to this. I think if you dont know how to use any of the tanks you are not going to move up cps. Many players have the rtsoft tank now, and still do not move up cps. I have the rtsoft and know how to use it that is why I move up cps. I just played with the new rtsoft, lower reloads speeds, and won all the games I played in which was about 5.

All I'm saying is that the rtsoft with the new update is not worth 10,000 coins any more if it only has a little more damage than the spider, a 500 coin tank, and that's it!

I think may players who have bought it with money are going to be disappointed when they realise the difference. Either way I will still move up in cps no matter what tanks I use or what modifications are made since I am above average player and know how to play the game!

anonymous1
04-09-2012, 03:51 PM
So the Spider has only one less disadvantage (stat) lower than the rtsoft, which is that the spider has a little less damage ability, very little! All the other stats including reload now are the same. The spider cost 500 coins and the rtsoft 10,000 coins a difference of 9,500 coins! So what your telling me is that 9,500 coins just gets you a little more damage, WOW! If I knew this was going to happen I would not have bought the rtsoft with money. I would have just used the coins I earned, which is over 2,000 coins by now if I hadn't given any away, and just bought the spider! I give 50 coins away everyday so all player can get a upgraded tank eventually.

I have read all the threads in reference to this. I think if you dont know how to use any of the tanks you are not going to move up cps. Many players have the rtsoft tank now, and still do not move up cps. I have the rtsoft and know how to use it that is why I move up cps. I just played with the new rtsoft, lower reloads speeds, and won all the games I played in which was about 5.

All I'm saying is that the rtsoft with the new update is not worth 10,000 coins any more if it only has a little more damage than the spider, a 500 coin tank, and that's it!

I think may players who have bought it with money are going to be disappointed when they realise the difference. Either way I will still move up in cps no matter what tanks I use or what modifications are made since I am above average player and know how to play the game!

TP, I saw your CPs jumped from 13k to 34k after you had a RTsoft tank just a short period of time. That means the RTsoft tank really helped you a lot. But seth's goal is to keep the game 90% skill and 10% "better tank". So if you are a good player, 10% "better tank" still makes a lot the difference.

TPNFRC
04-09-2012, 04:01 PM
TP, I saw your CPs jumped from 13k to 34k after you had a RTsoft tank just a short period of time. That means the RTsoft tank really helped you a lot. But seth's goal is to keep the game 90% skill and 10% "better tank". So if you are a good player, 10% "better tank" still makes a lot the difference.

I didn't say once that the rtsoft didn't help me earn cp. What I said was the the rtsoft is not worth 10,000 coins anymore! The spider has only one stat lower and cost 9,500 coins less. That is what I'm saying! Once again regardless of what tank I use I will still move up. Can you justify the cost of the rtsoft at 10,000 coins for just a little more damage than a 500 coin tank. That is what I'm saying. Everyone talking about balance of the game but forgot the cost/ coin balance, which is off now!

Play
04-09-2012, 08:50 PM
I may be wrong, but it appears that much of this conversation (and others) are dominated by the top players, so the perspective is not balanced. First of all, I love version 2, and Seth has done a great deal to attempt to provide variety without harming the non-paying players too greatly.

However, people are lying about the tank situation. The Skull is downright devastating if used in ever moderately skilled hands. It is especially powerful given the numerous lags that occur in the game, which confers an advantage upon the faster tanks. So while it technically can only be killed in two shots, there have been multiple instances where a Skull "magically" appears in front of me and I am dead without firing a single shot. I would therefore suggest that the reload speed be decreased so that it reloads slower than the Stuart but faster than the Sherman.

In regards to the RTSoft tank, it DOMINATES when in moderately skilled hands, especially with any tanks lower than the Spider. Yes, bad beginners are still going to be bad, but that's not the point. While it's fine to have a "top tank", I do agree that additional points should be deducted solely from RTSoft tank players when they lose. That way the disproportionate speed and power will be at least partially compensated by an elevated risk.

Of course needs to tailor one's strategy to each tank and against each tank. However, progression of tank purchases was not coincidental. Initially, the beginners constituted the majority of the tank purchasers and weren't much of a threat. However, as the medium level players started to purchase tanks and the top players started to lose points, then the top players "magically" started purchasing tanks. Now it obviously takes time to acquire the coins, however not that many top players have "earned" over 1,000 coins; they bought them once they felt threatened and realized the huge advantage of the more powerful tanks once used correctly.

I know that I am no pivotal player in this game, but many of the top players aren't being honest about the situation. Many of them are very skilled, but many also manipulate the system. Back in version 1, they would pick their favorite mode and would avoid playing with beginners. Version 2 has done a great job of remedying those issues. Now the tank situation is being exploited. I understand one needs money to maintain and improve the game, but the top tanks do not adhere to the "90% skill" standard. Either some sort of "prize" should be offered for "taking down" the top tanks, or they should be modified to be more balanced. But thanks Seth for all of the improvements, version 2 is great!

blg, there are players of all rankings on this forum, just as bacon1 said. It may seem like people are "lying" about the tank powers, but it only seems that way because the regular players (which means the MORE EXPERIENCED PLAYERS which obviously are the TOP PLAYERS) are posting more here. As far as your claim that the Skull "magically" appears in front of you because it's too fast...this is just not true. I've had the Dink tank and every tank out there "magically" appear in front of me at some point...it is SOLELY due to a poor wifi connection at the time. If tank speed had to do with it, then the Panzer would be the one that "magically" appears in front of you.



Yeah i got one. since the skull has been weakened i have lost points won less and not gaining any coins at all. Seth ever since the speed on the skull has been taken down a notch i have started to loose points! the skull isn't working for me anymore!

I very much agree with soccer on this one. Although I agreed that the speed may need to be SLIGHTLY lowered, I think it was slowed down too much...rendering it useless. The M3 can no longer be used at the constant variable to compare all other tanks by...there are too many shermans, spiders, etc out there now. As the players who know how to play with the Skull properly have said, this tank requires you play it "stealthy"...which can only be done if it is faster. Now, with it's much lowered speed and it's almost zero armor AND the great number of super fast panzers, the Spider, and the powerful Shermans out there, the Skull has now become a static target that is easily killed. It has actually even become more risky to play with than the M3. I think the speed should be increased slightly more than it is now, but maybe not as fast as what it used to be...just to see if this makes the Skull a worthy tank to play with once again.



TP, I saw your CPs jumped from 13k to 34k after you had a RTsoft tank just a short period of time. That means the RTsoft tank really helped you a lot. But seth's goal is to keep the game 90% skill and 10% "better tank". So if you are a good player, 10% "better tank" still makes a lot the difference.

This is not a fair thing to say and just not true. The reason TPNFRC's score jumped is because he stopped playing for a while...but now he is back and gaining points just as he was before the different tanks came out. He may be using the RTsoft Tank but that's not the reason he jumped in points. There are many players out there with RTsoft Tanks that are NOT jumping in points, yet no one seems to be mentioning them.



So the Spider has only one less disadvantage (stat) lower than the rtsoft, which is that the spider has a little less damage ability, very little! All the other stats including reload now are the same. The spider cost 500 coins and the rtsoft 10,000 coins a difference of 9,500 coins! So what your telling me is that 9,500 coins just gets you a little more damage, WOW! If I knew this was going to happen I would not have bought the rtsoft with money. I would have just used the coins I earned, which is over 2,000 coins by now if I hadn't given any away, and just bought the spider! I give 50 coins away everyday so all player can get a upgraded tank eventually.

I have read all the threads in reference to this. I think if you dont know how to use any of the tanks you are not going to move up cps. Many players have the rtsoft tank now, and still do not move up cps. I have the rtsoft and know how to use it that is why I move up cps. I just played with the new rtsoft, lower reloads speeds, and won all the games I played in which was about 5.

All I'm saying is that the rtsoft with the new update is not worth 10,000 coins any more if it only has a little more damage than the spider, a 500 coin tank, and that's it!

I think may players who have bought it with money are going to be disappointed when they realise the difference. Either way I will still move up in cps no matter what tanks I use or what modifications are made since I am above average player and know how to play the game!

As I said before, I don't feel the RTSoft Tank needed to be further weakened after the armor was decreased, especially with all of the other advantages the other tanks have. The armor is the same as the M3...the speed is the same as the Spider...and now even the reload speed has been lowered to be the same as the M3. The damage is the ONLY thing that's "better" and even that isn't truly anything special because the RTSoft Tank kills the M3 in 5 shots and the M3 kills the RTSoft Tank in 6 shots...only a 1 shot difference. As I said before, the M3 can no longer be used as the constant variable to adjust other tank powers by...the minute extra damage of the RTSoft Tank is actually useless since there are other tanks e.g the more powerful Sherman out there. On top of that, now even the reload speed has been lowered to be the same as the M3. I feel this has definitely now tipped the balance by far and the RTSoft Tank is no longer any better than any other tank. In fact, with all of these changes made to the RTSoft Tank and the Skull, the Sherman is slowly becoming the most powerful overall tank out there.

Btw, I think the "Underdog Bonus" feature is a very good idea.

I hope this post makes sense. :sweatdrop:

bacon1
04-09-2012, 10:01 PM
Play, your post makes perfect sense to anyone who knows what you're talking about. I disagree a little, though, with what you said about who posts on here. A lot of higher ranks post because they've been around a bit, and know their stuff. They feel it's their duty to post and make the game better, just as anyone else. They are people to look up to. They don't give a "one sided" argument-they research and observe carefully before posting anything. As for regular players being top players, I would disagree with that. I play just about every night, and have been since late December after I got my touchpad. That's about four months of playing, but I am still low. I do have a lot of experience, and can beat many of the top 50, but I am not a top player (granted, I keep my points low on purpose. If you want to know that purpose, ask me later).

As I said, I don't give a lick if the stats on the tanks are changed, because I only have the m3. I do, however, think it would be mean to weaken the rtsoft tank too much. I mean, the skull costs $6. The rtsoft costs $40. People are paying for quality. Even though it can't be too high (because that would be unfair), it should still be pretty darn good for being almost 7 times as expensive as the next best tank.

As for TP, I know he left and came back for the update. I don't think it's fair to say he is getting ALL his points just out of skill, though. I have no doubt that he would have gotten those points eventually, but the rtsoft tank probably helped him out a bit. TP is good. The rtsoft tank is good. TP knows how to use that tank. What do you get when you mix a good player with a good tank? The same thing you get when you mix bacon and eggs. Perfection.

Seth
04-09-2012, 10:04 PM
I didn't say once that the rtsoft didn't help me earn cp. What I said was the the rtsoft is not worth 10,000 coins anymore! The spider has only one stat lower and cost 9,500 coins less. That is what I'm saying! Once again regardless of what tank I use I will still move up. Can you justify the cost of the rtsoft at 10,000 coins for just a little more damage than a 500 coin tank. That is what I'm saying. Everyone talking about balance of the game but forgot the cost/ coin balance, which is off now!

The thing about this game is a 10% advantage in stats could mean 50% more wins (tank A always beats tank B in a perfectly played game of "chicken" for instance) - so linearly matching price to stats doesn't work. (And in some cases, isn't mean to - Panzer may not be better than the M3, but it's "different" - a price also adds an artificially created value of rarity which itself is part of the meta-game behind the game )

RTsoft is the best tank in the game, and the cost reflects that. If it isn't the best tank, I'll continue to tweak stats until it is.

soccerfu
04-09-2012, 10:59 PM
Hey seth i think you should lower the cost of the rtsoft tank. Now it is not worth 20x more than the second best( third for me now after the speed reduce) tank in the game.

Seth
04-09-2012, 11:06 PM
Hey seth i think you should lower the cost of the rtsoft tank. Now it is not worth 20x more than the second best( third for me now after the speed reduce) tank in the game.

Nope, price won't change. It's for the elite few, not any random guy.

wotwot
04-10-2012, 12:09 AM
Nope, price won't change. It's for the elite few, not any random guy.



i'd like a refund on the rts tank i paid for please seth.
like i said in the other thread, it costs 20 times more than the spider for one notch of damage more
it has now been downgraded twice. it's not what i paid for
as i said, i have spent more money than most on this game. ive bought coins just to gamble and give away, but i now feel cheated.
so can you either let me sell my tank to get the coins back, or give me the coins straight back or a straight cash refund.
i would prefer to be able to sell the tank for coins, then i can choose other tanks again in the future,because the rtssoft tank is certainly not worth 10,000 coins now.
i think giving people the ability to sell their tanks back to the store for the coins they paid would be the best answer
what do you suggest?

Seth
04-10-2012, 12:23 AM
i'd like a refund on the rts tank i paid for please seth.
like i said in the other thread, it costs 20 times more than the spider for one notch of damage more
it has now been downgraded twice. it's not what i paid for
as i said, i have spent more money than most on this game. ive bought coins just to gamble and give away, but i now feel cheated.
so can you either let me sell my tank to get the coins back, or give me the coins straight back or a straight cash refund.
i would prefer to be able to sell the tank for coins, then i can choose other tanks again in the future,because the rtssoft tank is certainly not worth 10,000 coins now.
i think giving people the ability to sell their tanks back to the store for the coins they paid would be the best answer
what do you suggest?

To anybody who has buyers regret over the RTsoft Tank, email me at seth@rtsoft.com with your name and I'll be happy to buy it back for Tank Coins if you want. (less a 10% wear and tear fee to cover the weeks spent driving it around)

(Limited time offer.. only because of the recent changes in this one case, in general, stat changes are just part of the game.. obviously nobody likes it when their favorite Tank is weakened, but I really am doing it for the good of the game)

TPNFRC
04-10-2012, 08:52 AM
To anybody who has buyers regret over the RTsoft Tank, email me at seth@rtsoft.com with your name and I'll be happy to buy it back for Tank Coins if you want. (less a 10% wear and tear fee to cover the weeks spent driving it around)

(Limited time offer.. only because of the recent changes in this one case, in general, stat changes are just part of the game.. obviously nobody likes it when their favorite Tank is weakened, but I really am doing it for the good of the game)

You still have not responded to my question! How can you justify the price of the rtsoft at 10,000 coins! The spider is just 500 coins and has just one disadvantage, a little less damage! So you think charging 9,500 coins more for a little more damage is fair! Also be very careful since you do not have any disclaimers when purchasing tanks. A person buys a tanks after viewing its stats (it most cases with the rtsoft with really money), then all of sudden you change the stats! This is not right! You can forget about charging a 10 percent usage fee for the tank! You have modified a tank after it has been purchased and made it not worth the original price (I'm sure Apple or HP would agree). Like Soccerfu said you need to reduce the price of the rtsoft tank now and refund currect owners the difference or put the rtsoft back to what it was. Apple has strict guidelines especially when money is exchanging hands! What made me mad is the fact that you stated a 10 percent wear tear fee! Are you kidding me! I dont really care but many ppl dont have money to waste, which they did if they have a rtsoft now! Get the spider it is a lot cheaper with almost same stats! Put a disclaimer up when purchasing tanks that you can modify them after original purchase to prevent any liabiltiy on your part. For now everyone that has an rtsoft has got ripped off because the price of the tank is not justified! This is common sense if you look at how much it cost! One more thing if you are really doing it for the good of the game just reduce the price of the rtsoft, thats all I'm saying! Charge 5,000 coins insteads of 10,000 coins for it. To be honest Im not sure if its even worth 5,000 coins anymore! The spider is ONLY 500 coins for one more advantage I think 1,000 coins is a good price! So yes you have turned a 10,000 coins (which is aby 40 USD and 50 USD in pound, which I paid) to a $4.00 tank! Yes that is right look at the price difference!

Seth
04-10-2012, 09:52 AM
You still have not responded to my question! How can you justify the price of the rtsoft at 10,000 coins! The spider is just 500 coins and has just one disadvantage, a little less damage! So you think charging 9,500 coins more for a little more damage is fair! Also be very careful since you do not have any disclaimers when purchasing tanks. A person buys a tanks after viewing its stats (it most cases with the rtsoft with really money), then all of sudden you change the stats! This is not right! You can forget about charging a 10 percent usage fee for the tank! You have modified a tank after it has been purchased and made it not worth the original price (I'm sure Apple or HP would agree). Like Soccerfu said you need to reduce the price of the rtsoft tank now and refund currect owners the difference or put the rtsoft back to what it was. Apple has strict guidelines especially when money is exchanging hands! What made me mad is the fact that you stated a 10 percent wear tear fee! Are you kidding me! I dont really care but many ppl dont have money to waste, which they did if they have a rtsoft now! Get the spider it is a lot cheaper with almost same stats! Put a disclaimer up when purchasing tanks that you can modify them after original purchase to prevent any liabiltiy on your part. For now everyone that has an rtsoft has got ripped off because the price of the tank is not justified! This is common sense if you look at how much it cost! One more thing if you are really doing it for the good of the game just reduce the price of the rtsoft, thats all I'm saying! Charge 5,000 coins insteads of 10,000 coins for it. To be honest Im not sure if its even worth 5,000 coins anymore! The spider is ONLY 500 coins for one more advantage I think 1,000 coins is a good price! So yes you have turned a 10,000 coins (which is aby 40 USD and 50 USD in pound, which I paid) to a $4.00 tank! Yes that is right look at the price difference!

Check my other posts, I think I did respond.

For example:


The thing about this game is a 10% advantage in stats could mean 50% more wins (tank A always beats tank B in a perfectly played game of "chicken" for instance) - so linearly matching price to stats doesn't work. (And in some cases, isn't mean to - Panzer may not be better than the M3, but it's "different" - a price also adds an artificially created value of rarity which itself is part of the meta-game behind the game )

RTsoft is the best tank in the game, and the cost reflects that. If it isn't the best tank, I'll continue to tweak stats until it is.



I'm actually a little shocked to find someone who's been enjoying his tank, cleaning up for WEEKS, playing THOUSANDS of games, and then after a very slight change suddenly forget the last 50+ hours of fun (how many games have you played? I can check..) have the nerve to call it a rip off and want a full refund as if he didn't get anything.

About rules:

If you click the rules which are shown at every login since V2 launched, you will find:


Game modes/rules/tank stats are subject to change.

I cannot run a business if people buy things, play for a month, then demand refunds every time I tweak things to improve the game.

If you feel you need to complain to Apple/etc, that's your choice, and I will vigorously defend my policy which I believe is more than fair.

TPNFRC
04-10-2012, 03:27 PM
Check my other posts, I think I did respond.

For example:



I'm actually a little shocked to find someone who's been enjoying his tank, cleaning up for WEEKS, playing THOUSANDS of games, and then after a very slight change suddenly forget the last 50+ hours of fun (how many games have you played? I can check..) have the nerve to call it a rip off and want a full refund as if he didn't get anything.

About rules:

If you click the rules which are shown at every login since V2 launched, you will find:



I cannot run a business if people buy things, play for a month, then demand refunds every time I tweak things to improve the game.

If you feel you need to complain to Apple/etc, that's your choice, and I will vigorously defend my policy which I believe is more than fair.


I don't want a refund at all and have not mentioned that in any of my post. I would have paid $40 to $50 just to play the game since I enjoy it. I would like to apologize if I sound like I'm complaining or don't appreciate what you have done for the game. All I'm saying you should make the rtsoft cheaper since the stat change and what the current cost of the Spider is. I do not want any money back or coins! I'm just standing up for the other players that have the tank. Please feel free to do whatever you like, and I trust your judgment. You are the gaming expert not me. So once again I am sorry and thank you very much for the game, which is a very big stress reliever for me!